tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post5645150661240883193..comments2023-12-18T17:32:03.325+00:00Comments on Kindred of the Quiet Way: Just-go-to-church - a tentative movementUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-21415177090137903162014-11-14T09:18:46.178+00:002014-11-14T09:18:46.178+00:00:0) Thanks, Jenna! xx:0) Thanks, Jenna! xxPen Wilcockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818227904371811230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-23387243052481710612014-11-14T00:42:03.008+00:002014-11-14T00:42:03.008+00:00I'm late on this one--been uber busy. But I wa...I'm late on this one--been uber busy. But I wanted to chime in. I spent 40 years as a "church gypsy." And what I've finally figured out is to do what the Bible says. Even that part to the left of Matthew that we were told didn't apply to us (except on tithing pledge days, ironically); that was for those "Jews." (No.) And what we find when we search the word "shabbat" (sabbath) http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=sabbath&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1 is that there are miqra kodesh (holy convocations) only on the feast days. We are told that the Shabbat is the sign of His people; it's the Bride's engagement ring. It's for rest, the word means "to cease." Cease being in the world.<br /><br />What I found in today's "church" is that there's a guy who is paid (usually) who stands up and reads spending 1 minute or 2 reading God's word and then 28 or 29 adding his comment to it, as if the holy Word needed his help. <br /><br />In my perfect world, I would gather with believers to hear the Scriptures read--as Nehemiah and Ezra did with the children of Israel when they were returned to the Land. Even in Yahshua's day, the Purishim (Pharisees, from the Hasmonean period--not ordained by YHVH) read Scripture from Moses' seat in the synagogue and rose to give their comment on it. That's why Yashua said to do as they say while they're in Moses seat but not as they said when they were giving their opinion on it (and ultimately fencing it off with their endless additions!! Matt 23). Maybe we'd read from the Torah portion and then have some time to simply reflect upon in Quakerly silence. I don't know. There is this tradition handed down from paganinity (thank you, Constantine and your paid staff, aka "early church fathers") and it's unfounded in Scripture. Believers have always gathered to eat, pray, study--but just as typically on other days as the Shabbat. The assembly, the ekklesia, was more a way of life than an event or occasion. Jennanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-82078579992547820792014-11-06T11:43:35.036+00:002014-11-06T11:43:35.036+00:00Ah yes - that keeping in step with the marching ba...Ah yes - that keeping in step with the marching band cause me some qualms of conscience too! xxPen Wilcockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818227904371811230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-77124144735022156282014-11-06T11:41:48.133+00:002014-11-06T11:41:48.133+00:00Oh Pen, you've really touched on a subject tha...Oh Pen, you've really touched on a subject that goes round and round in my head constantly.From a churchgoing background I have evolved into a solitary who rarely, if ever, goes to church. And I can't imagine that ever changing.Church makes me feel claustrophobic in every respect. And yet, I am a very gregarious person, and I love to meet people of all faiths and none. Just people, No labels.<br />This is the problem as I see it. If you belong to a church, by implication, you are expected to belong to that club in every respect. Sign up to their views and be identified as one of them. In the fold, as it were. In my book, that excludes the rest of the world and I am not prepared to do that.<br />And no, I can't stand the smug, we've been to church, before and after chit chat. Hope that doesn't sound too harsh. Give me an empty church, with just me and silence. <br />It's so good to have this blog the exchange these views. I'm sure that this discussion has a long way to go yet.<br />God Bless<br />StellaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-74007032469857592942014-11-06T07:41:08.566+00:002014-11-06T07:41:08.566+00:00Thank you! I think your comment touches exactly on...Thank you! I think your comment touches exactly on an issue I'd love to pursue - when you say 'I wonder whether church goes beyond my needs' - I mean, yes, that's the question; or as Shakespeare put it, 'Aye, there's the rub!' <br />I'll pick up what you've said in a new blog post later today. xxxPen Wilcockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818227904371811230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-83559297575288920142014-11-06T01:55:14.515+00:002014-11-06T01:55:14.515+00:00Pen, that is one of the reasons I attend a large C...Pen, that is one of the reasons I attend a large Cathedral. It seems like the only place I can quietly enter and exit without having to socially engage. The problem as I see it is that if you belong to a small church the very act of coming together necessitates a certain amount of relationship. It's almost unavoidable. And as a bit of a recluse that is exactly what I have discovered. I found the simple plain little church you speak of. It was small in number but I just couldn't face the social expectations associated with attending a tiny church when my need was for quiet, contemplative worship. <br />Then of course I wonder whether church goes beyond my needs. Whilst I crave a singular worship experience, maybe it is those very connections that help me to better love and be loved and to give to others? Is their need greater than mine? So many questions that fly around this tiny mind. :)Lucy Honeychurchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00394355660241689230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-83147503039702106732014-11-03T08:46:19.544+00:002014-11-03T08:46:19.544+00:00Friend, you speak my mind! xxFriend, you speak my mind! xxPen Wilcockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818227904371811230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-20379906149091132862014-11-03T00:11:47.565+00:002014-11-03T00:11:47.565+00:00it seems that here in the states, there are plenty...it seems that here in the states, there are plenty of extrovert churches - lots of glad-handing, activities for young and old, fund-raising projects, mission drives, sunday school for both adults and children, church services that begin with the words 'yee-haw' (i am not making this up!), lots of snappy music, pot-luck suppers, women's groups, men's groups, teen groups . . .and very little else. a quiet place to simply come and worship? oh, heaven, lead me to it. gretchennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-85751807847979025962014-11-02T08:00:04.140+00:002014-11-02T08:00:04.140+00:00:0)
Hello friends - waving! xx:0) <br /><br />Hello friends - waving! xxPen Wilcockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818227904371811230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-68125319874399513372014-11-02T00:02:04.791+00:002014-11-02T00:02:04.791+00:00Hi Pen, yes, sometimes the before and after church...Hi Pen, yes, sometimes the before and after church socialising is a bit much for me too. I love to just quietly enter church and take a bit of time before the service starts to clear my mind of the worldly clutter and quieten my soul and then when we finish just quietly leave. Oh goodness, wouldn't that be lovely.<br />Have a lovely day Pen and to all who visit here.<br />Blessings Gail gailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11474172270399240621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-55328161938607664392014-11-01T22:53:08.309+00:002014-11-01T22:53:08.309+00:00It would be hard to keep such a church small I thi...It would be hard to keep such a church small I think.<br />It sounds ideal to me though, simple worship and no rock band!<br />Rapunzelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18381797135241461102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-22763063422447541922014-11-01T20:39:28.192+00:002014-11-01T20:39:28.192+00:00:0) Hi friends!
Rebecca, that's very interest...:0) Hi friends!<br /><br />Rebecca, that's very interesting. Here in the UK (same in the US??) "worship" in, say, the Methodist or Anglican traditions would mean the whole service - all the prayers, hymns, sermon - whereas in some of the more recent Evangelical church forms, for example New Frontiers, "worship" can sometimes mean the part of the service devoted to a block of singing.<br />When I say "worship", I am thinking of the whole service.<br /> Pen Wilcockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818227904371811230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-1950714189426702512014-11-01T15:08:05.047+00:002014-11-01T15:08:05.047+00:00I think we may be closer together on this subject ...I think we may be closer together on this subject that I realize. "Socialising" has many meanings and many of them don't appeal to me, either. Fund-raising events do not belong in church, in my opinion. However, worship is not synonymous (in my understanding) with instruction or necessarily with intercessory & communal prayer...Biblical fellowship has been cheapened and substitutions are unsatisfying so many people turn to other organizations to satisfy the vacuum created when "church" is less than "church" should be.Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08740950362293427086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-27783604503544602192014-11-01T14:08:47.227+00:002014-11-01T14:08:47.227+00:00yes please to your church. I'd glady attend!yes please to your church. I'd glady attend!Denisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03938987567999620533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-59502266666265426392014-11-01T13:29:48.772+00:002014-11-01T13:29:48.772+00:00Hi friends!
Daisy - you speak my mind!For some ti...Hi friends!<br /><br />Daisy - you speak my mind!For some time now a small internal voice has been muttering to me about that thing you say: "I often wonder why we do not manage to set up our own Sunday meetings. The institutional churches and their clergy are not necessary." Hmm.<br /><br />Rebecca - Yes, I feel the same way about taking seriously the scriptural imperative to community but, to me, such worship as I imagine would be community. If community is plain and simple, without hype, hierarchy, expense and a lot of socialising, I'm all for it. The whole of my adult life I have chosen to share my home with others, and it is important to me that we help carry each other's burdens. My grandfather had on his wall a framed quotation: "Help thou thy brother's boat across, and lo, thine own has touched the shore." I'm a real believer in doing the journey together. But quietly.<br />As a friend of mine once memorably said to his lover, "FFS do it gently!" I think that can be applied to the whole of life.Pen Wilcockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818227904371811230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-74765748551220240402014-11-01T11:51:21.953+00:002014-11-01T11:51:21.953+00:00I'm a little conflicted here, I admit. I unde...I'm a little conflicted here, I admit. I understand and share your longing for "worship"...On the other hand, Scripture itself seems to point toward "community". Surely there is place for both? Maybe we're just not doing it right--or well?Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08740950362293427086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-40847249064356074162014-11-01T11:44:07.296+00:002014-11-01T11:44:07.296+00:00Yes indeed, me too Miss, me too!
When I was a re...Yes indeed, me too Miss, me too! <br /><br />When I was a regular churchgoer I sometimes suspected that for some people the actual time of worship was a rather irritating interruption to the important business of socialising and arranging social events.<br /><br />This is one of the things I love about the 12 Step Fellowships, and The Julian Meetings. We go along and there are no further obligations. Yes, some things have to be done, but it is very low key. The meeting is the important thing and 'business' is kept firmly in its place.<br /><br />12 Step 'Tradition Nine' is 'ought never be organised but we may create service boards and committees directly responsible to those they serve', and The JM's have a similar ethos.<br /><br />Anyone wanting to hold a fundraiser event would be gently told that 'This is not what we do' and why.<br /><br />There seem to be so many of us I often wonder why we do not manage to set up our own Sunday meetings. The institutional churches and their clergy are not necessary.DaisyAnonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12680034482022415405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-20713743471622886842014-11-01T11:30:36.358+00:002014-11-01T11:30:36.358+00:00I'd be there too, Pen. What a wonderful post.I'd be there too, Pen. What a wonderful post.Elizabeth @ The Garden Windowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00274788007550318693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-46169495448089352522014-11-01T10:39:34.079+00:002014-11-01T10:39:34.079+00:00This church is getting quite full! Perhaps we have...This church is getting quite full! Perhaps we have lost the art in being silent before God. Do we "miss" God in all the noise and socializing. Yes we may have had a good service but did we meet God.<br />There is a time to be social and a time to worship ...not necessarily together and at the same time.Patriciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05124987111650146853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-84600559399910420372014-11-01T09:11:33.287+00:002014-11-01T09:11:33.287+00:00Haha! Ooh good, Tonia - I thought I might be comin...Haha! Ooh good, Tonia - I thought I might be coming across a tad sour! xx<br /><br />San - hiya - you have been much on my mind - hope you are all okay - praying for y'all and blessing you when you come into my thoughts. xxPen Wilcockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818227904371811230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-31322801451554932062014-10-31T23:48:20.188+00:002014-10-31T23:48:20.188+00:00Minority of one? Nay, Lass!! Budge up and let an...Minority of one? Nay, Lass!! Budge up and let another sit beside ye quietly in a pew :-)<br /><br />xxSandra Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260644073051470011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-13400428108162970832014-10-31T22:48:46.285+00:002014-10-31T22:48:46.285+00:00This made me smile. And want to give a quiet litt...This made me smile. And want to give a quiet little shout. YES! I would love to go to church to worship, then come home without all the pressure to be friendly and involved and communal. :) I really can't thank you enough for just being you and letting me know there is a place in the world for those of us who are less excited about...company...than the rest of the world seems to be. :)toniahttp://studyinbrown.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-55719190657198899402014-10-31T20:46:13.897+00:002014-10-31T20:46:13.897+00:00I totally agree with you. We are currently unchurc...I totally agree with you. We are currently unchurched, meeting our own spiritual needs though prayer, contemplation, bible study on our own or in fellowship with like minded friends. And, if we ventured forth to an established church again, for me at least, it would be to worship.<br />DMWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-76330511560158289142014-10-31T20:35:04.681+00:002014-10-31T20:35:04.681+00:00Hmm. St Beuno's looks lovely, but it seems lik...Hmm. St Beuno's looks lovely, but it seems like we'll be needing a bigger church!Pen Wilcockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818227904371811230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55532501364780143.post-64025365820122922262014-10-31T20:28:01.640+00:002014-10-31T20:28:01.640+00:00St. Beuno's -- what a wonderful edifice. And I...St. Beuno's -- what a wonderful edifice. And I would prefer to go to church to worship the Lord and then go home. I love people, but prefer to be peoply away from church. And the movement has begun.... :) xoxo Julie B.http://www.justjulieb.comnoreply@blogger.com